I n t e r v i e w with Pavlo Ivanovych O t c h e n a s h e n k o
With corrections in July 2006.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: On February 10, 2001, in Odesa, in the hospitable home of Mr. Oleksa Riznykiv, we are speaking with Mr. Pavlo Otchenashenko. Recorded by Vasyl Ovsiyenko.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Good day! I was told that our family comes from Poltava. Once in Bessarabia, there were German settlements, and they needed water. And in Bessarabia, the upper layer of water is brackish. My grandfather was an engineer for extracting drinking water, so he was sent to Bessarabia, and that’s how our family remained in Bessarabia.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Do you remember your grandfather’s name?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Stepan Otchenashenko. The Soviet government only came to us in 1939, but it didn’t last long—the war began in 1941. So the people were not used to that government.
I was born on October 1, 1941, in the town of Sarata in what is now Odesa oblast. At that time, it was Izmail oblast.
My parents processed agricultural products—they smoked meat, processed various products.
When the Soviet troops approached in 1943, my father was taken to the front. He reached Berlin, was even in Prague, and had many awards. He was healthy, but he lost his health in that war, had many wounds. This affected his life. He started drinking. I remember, I was still young. And my fate turned out to be very difficult. When I was 7 years old, in 1948, my mother died, and my father was weak after the war. And I had two brothers. My father began to ask for some kind of treatment, but the authorities paid no attention, even though he had many awards. For these demands, he was thrown in prison. He served 4 years, was at the construction of the Kuybyshev Hydroelectric Station.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: When was your father repressed?
P.I.Otchenashenko: It was around 1949–50. After his release, he didn't live long; he died. So I was left alone, raised by my aunts.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: You haven't mentioned your father’s name yet. Please tell us.
P.I.Otchenashenko: My father’s name was Ivan. I am Pavlo Ivanovych. My mother’s name was Maria, her maiden name was Podust. I have many relatives on my mother’s side. My father was from the German colony of Sarata. Now there is the Sarata Raion of Odesa Oblast—it’s a former German colony. And he married my mother from Plakhtiivka—a Cossack settlement.
I finished school in Sarata and went to study in Odesa. Since I had no parents, I had to go to a vocational school. It was hard, of course. That was in 1957. I finished my studies, got a construction worker's profession, and was sent to Kotovsk in Odesa oblast to build a sugar factory.
I was very active—I was young, energetic. They were constantly hammering this communist idea into our heads. But even then, I saw some flaws in it.
I worked in Kotovsk for 4 years. It was very hard there, it was a Komsomol construction project. We worked day and even night—the state needed the sugar factory. And then I moved to Illichivsk because they started building the Illichivsk port. And I enrolled in the Odesa Civil Engineering Institute, in the evening department. This was already 1963.
At that time, I was a Komsomol member, I did Komsomol work. Frankly, I had no national ideas then. We were like proletarians. That’s how we were brought up in school. We didn't even have that kind of thinking. At that time, it was believed that everyone should be equal—no nationalities. I met a few guys—young, from the institute. We started to analyze life. At that time, Khrushchev was in power. He started reforms in agriculture, there was “let’s catch up with America,” “let’s surpass it,” but everything turned out the opposite. We, the youth, began to notice all this. Products began to disappear, queues appeared. Life was getting worse. We were a group, about 6 guys—we started to confer. But there was no one older to help us with anything; we were on our own. I went to the library, gathered some literature, and we began to analyze it. And we started to produce *samizdat*. Those who had a bit of talent started drawing caricatures of Khrushchev and the authorities and posting them everywhere. Some would stay on a balcony to watch the reaction.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And where did you post them?
P.I.Otchenashenko: In public places in Odesa, in Illichivsk.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: What size were these posters?
P.I.Otchenashenko: At that time, it was generally difficult to get paper. We would buy posters like “Long live the CPSU!” and draw on the white back.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Were there any inscriptions besides the caricatures?
P.I.Otchenashenko: There were inscriptions like: “Down with Khrushchev's party!” Of course, the KGB authorities began to look for who was doing this. We realized they had started looking for us. They made an announcement at all the enterprises, so we knew they were looking for us. And, of course, the guys got scared. And since I had no parents and was a bit older, and since it was my idea, I said: “Guys, none of you were there. I'll be the only one.” I knew there was such an article: if you’re alone, the sentence is one thing, but if it’s a group, they give more. The guys, of course, got scared, and even today when I meet them, they bow their heads and look away. I’m not offended by them, they were young guys.
How was I arrested? For some reason, I suspected that I was being followed. I decided to check if it was true or not, maybe they already knew. After all, we had been active for almost a year, they couldn't have not found us. I checked simply: I took a bus from Illichivsk to Odesa, went to Shevchenko Park, walked down an alley, and then sharply turned back and saw the people who were following me. Since that was the case, I told the guys not to even come near me. They arrested me at work on September 28, 1963.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And where were you working then?
P.I.Otchenashenko: In Illichivsk, we were building the Illichivsk port. It was the mechanized column SU-430 “Chernomorhidrostroy.” Some men in civilian clothes approached me and said: “Your candidacy has been proposed for a job abroad. We need to clarify a few questions.” I got into the car with them, and we drove to Odesa. But it wasn't the KGB building, but the port building in the city center, the personnel department. There they informed me that I was being arrested. We get in the car again, they take me to the KGB. At that time, the KGB was headed by Major General Kuvarzin. It was such a very large office...
O.S.Riznykiv: I had Kuvarzin too.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Really? They took me into this large office, there were about 30 men sitting on the sides. They started a cross-examination: “Who are you working for?” “Who do you have contacts with in America?” I said, “Excuse me, I have no contacts with America or with anything else.” “Who gives you the funds?” The interrogation lasted for about two hours. There were many questions, and each one asked a question with some kind of trick. That's why I remember Kuvarzin so well. He shouted, “How could you make such caricatures, such slander, such filth about our father, Nikita Sergeyevich!?” Those were Kuvarzin's words.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: They were already sure they had found who they needed?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Probably so, since they were following me. In the evening, they put me in a Volga car, a Volga in front, a Volga behind, and with this escort—to Illichivsk. They turned off the lights in the whole of Illichivsk, even in that microdistrict. I lived in a dormitory—they entered the room, a search began. Well, what kind of things did I have back then? They found some letters. I had already prepared: everything that could have endangered the guys, I had thrown away, there was nothing like that.
They took me back, to the temporary detention facility... What's the name of that street now, Oleksa, where the temporary detention facility is? On Soborna Street?
O.S.Riznykiv: Ah, Preobrazhenska.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, near Tyraspolska Square. I was in solitary confinement there until the next day. In the morning, they brought me to the KGB. Another interrogation, and they introduced me to the investigator. I forgot his last name, I don't remember... A pleasant man. He interrogated me several times, and then said, “I don't see anything anti-Soviet here. We will release you. Wait.” And he went somewhere. He left, and then a completely different person came in. He greeted me, introduced himself: “KGB Party Organizer Major Vodopyanov.” Aha, and the first investigator was Rozhko.
O.S.Riznykiv: I had Rozhko too.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Really? (Laughs). For some reason, he refused to handle the case, so they gave it to Vodopyanov. Then they took me to the Odesa prison, to the second block. They kept me in a solitary confinement cell there on the second floor for almost half a year.
The trial was in the courthouse somewhere here, near Dumska Square. I was tried by some kind of troika—I believe it was a troika.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And how were you treated during the investigation, was there any pressure?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Well, what kind of pressure—they didn't beat me, they didn't use physical pressure. The pressure was like this: “Confess who you have connections with abroad”—the same thing over and over. They wanted to reclassify it from political motives to common crimes, as they often did. They found a postcard on me, a young guy: a naked girl—see, pornography, we'll try you for pornography.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Under which article was the case opened, Article 62?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Article 62, Part I, yes, but they wanted to reclassify it to something else. They started looking at my work, maybe I had conflicts with someone or something else. They were looking to pin some common crime on me.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Yes, so they could imprison you on political grounds, but without creating a political prisoner.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, something like that. But at that time I was such a young, sharp guy. I didn't drink alcohol then, because it was hard without parents, I had my own problems, no time for alcohol.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And how did you manage to hide those guys, so that no one else was arrested?
P.I.Otchenashenko: They asked me who helped, and I said no one, I did it myself. Where I bought the posters, materials, paints—I told them everything.
Why did they come after me and not someone else? Who was interested in political literature at that time? No one. All those Khrushchev publications—they just lay there, and no one touched them. I asked the investigator: “How did you find me, by what means?” He replied: “Who else is interested in political literature? We asked in the bookstores, and they told us that a certain young man came here, bought posters.” And they took down those posters and knew which stores sold them. “He bought books here too. Well, if he had bought some fiction—but he buys political books!” That’s how they got on my trail.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Did you name the date of your arrest?
P.I.Otchenashenko: September 28, 1963.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Right in the midst of the Khrushchev era.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, yes. I remember September 28 well, because my birthday is on October 1, and I spent that birthday in a cell.
O.S.Riznykiv: They always do that. When it’s someone’s birthday or some event—that’s when they arrest them.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes. And they tried me—is that the Zhovtnevyi district, near Dumska?
O.S.Riznykiv: No, that was the regional court. On Pushkinska, where Derybasivska is.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: The regional court. For Article 62, only the regional court.
P.I.Otchenashenko: No, it was somewhere near Dumska. They took me into some building. Before the investigation was over, I asked for an open trial so I could tell everything, what was what. But they didn't respond to that. When they brought me to the trial, there were soldiers with machine guns behind me. The judge was sitting there (probably a KGB judge too), and that was it, no one else was there.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And were there people’s assessors? There were supposed to be two, who just nod their heads.
P.I.Otchenashenko: There were some, but they were also their employees... Before they were supposed to take me into the courtroom, they first took me into some room, a woman approached me: “I am a lawyer, I am supposed to defend you.” “And why are you supposed to defend me?” “I have familiarized myself with your case. Why did you need to do all that?” “Are you defending me or are you here to lecture me?” “You should repent—you won't get a sentence, and that's it.” “Why should I repent? I haven't done anything against the people, against the system, against anything—why should I repent?”
The court began the interrogation: “Do you confirm that these are your leaflets?” And about the rest of the evidence they had. I, of course, confirmed it. “Well, do you repent or not?” “No, I believe that I did everything consciously, and it was right.” “Well, then, if you want to sit in prison, you will sit.” And he reads the sentence: “with isolation from other types of criminals.” I didn't know then what that meant, that they would take me to Mordovia.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: So the trial lasted only one day?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Not even half an hour.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Half an hour? Do you remember the date of the trial?
P.I.Otchenashenko: I don't remember the date of the trial. But I have it here, wait a minute... According to the verdict of the Odesa Regional Court of December 23, 1963, Article 62, Part 1 of the Criminal Code of the Ukrainian SSR, “for anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda, sentenced to 4 years of imprisonment in a strict-regime correctional labor colony.”
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Is this from the rehabilitation certificate? When was it issued to you? February 16, 1994.
P.I.Otchenashenko: This was when my candidacy was nominated for election to the Verkhovna Rada. I didn't even apply for rehabilitation: if they don't think it's necessary to rehabilitate me, why should I beg them for this rehabilitation? And it was only in 1994 that I was rehabilitated. The Rukh movement nominated me as a candidate for deputy to the Verkhovna Rada. And then rumors started that I had been convicted for common crimes, that I was a bandit. So I had to go to the Security Service and say that my article should be rehabilitated—give me such a document. But at first, they gave me a certificate saying that Pavlo Ivanovych Otchenashenko, a native of Sarata Raion, “was convicted on December 23, 1963, by the Odesa Regional Court” under such-and-such an article and “Otchenashenko is currently not rehabilitated.” This was already 1994! The certificate is dated January 5, 1994. I made a copy of it and sent it by letter to Kravchuk—how are your laws on rehabilitation working, what is this? I don't know how it happened, but on February 14, 1994, they came to me, apologized, and gave me this certificate of rehabilitation.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: The Prosecutor's Office of Odesa Oblast issued this certificate. We need to photocopy it.
P.I.Otchenashenko: We can do that when we are in the city, or I can send it to you if you need it. I can give you both that certificate and the other one.
Well, they sent me to Mordovia...
V.V.Ovsiyenko: You were probably transported through Kharkiv?
P.I.Otchenashenko: No, it was Tula, Penza—something like that. I didn't know why they were taking me that way. First, they took me to Moscow, for a talk with Khrushchev. They brought me to the Kremlin, I sat there for about four hours, I think, waiting in some room. They drove me in a closed car, I saw nothing and didn't know where they had brought me. The door opened, Khrushchev came in and said: “Good day! You, Odesan, why are you writing such libels about me?” “What libels?” “And what about the ‘party of Khrushchev’?” (That's what was written there: “Down with Khrushchev's party!”). I said that's what it was. “Well, if you want to, then you can just sit there like that!” He turned around and left. The conversation lasted about five minutes.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Where was this—in the Kremlin itself?
P.I.Otchenashenko: I don't know—I was transported in a closed vehicle, I didn't see. But I believe I was in Moscow, but where—I don't know.
When I was under investigation, sitting in the Odesa prison, they would take me for interrogations to the KGB on Bebelya Street, and it wasn't even in a Black Maria.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Why did Khrushchev grant you such a meeting? This never happened to anyone else.
P.I.Otchenashenko: I don't know why. I met Khrushchev twice. Earlier, when I was working in Kotovsk, I was a shock worker of communist labor. The construction of the sugar factory was very important. So I was nominated for a rally of shock workers of communist labor in Moscow. The Odesa delegation was about eight people, we always stuck together. Everything was scheduled there, where your bed was, where you should eat, where you should sit. Khrushchev came into the dining hall. There was, of course, wine on the table, everyone could pour themselves a small glass. The people accompanying Khrushchev whispered something in his ear and for some reason he approached the Odesa delegation and said, “Well, Odesans, shall we drink to your feats, to your labor?” That was the first meeting. And the second meeting was, I believe, because all the caricatures were only about him, about Khrushchev, and ended with “Down with Khrushchev's party!” That's what led to them taking me there. But, as I said, that meeting and conversation lasted 5 minutes, no more: if you don't want to repent—then sit in prison, that's all.
Then I ended up in Mordovia. You asked if it was through Kharkiv—no.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And which camp did you end up in?
P.I.Otchenashenko: The eleventh.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: When did you arrive there?
P.I.Otchenashenko: I don't remember, but not long after the trial—maybe a month and a half or two later, something like that.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: The eleventh—what settlement is that? Yavas, probably?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, it’s Yavas. Then they did an experiment there. Where the hospital was—what was it called?
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Barashevo.
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, they gathered all the young people there. They were doing some kind of experiment. But that experiment turned out the opposite for them. In the camp where there were many older people, the youth were somehow dispersed, but here they gathered all the youth together, and some factions began to form. I don't remember what the reason was, but there were strikes. It happened that they would lead us to the industrial zone, and then everyone would sit down on the road and not get up for two hours. They called in the high command. We had some conflicts then—I've forgotten, I don't remember well. It was a so-called sitting strike. They saw that nothing was coming of this experiment, and they scattered us again to the camps where we had been before.
I was struck from the very beginning... I am grateful to the Ukrainian diaspora in Russia... When I arrived in the zone, on the first day I was met by Vasyl Pidhorodetskyi...
V.V.Ovsiyenko: I know, I know Vasyl Pidhorodetskyi.
P.I.Otchenashenko: The hunchbacked one. He’s still alive.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Yes, yes, thank God. (Vasyl Volodymyrovych Pidhorodetskyi died in August 2005 in Lviv. Born October 19, 1925, in the village of Krushelnytsia, Lviv oblast. Insurgent. Arrested in February 1953, sentenced to 25 years of imprisonment, 5 years of exile, and 5 years of disenfranchisement. Sentenced to another 25 years for organizing strikes. He was highly respected by the political prisoners. Released on March 29, 1981, he was tried twice more for “violation of the passport regime.” In total, he spent 32 years in captivity.—V.O.).
P.I.Otchenashenko: He spoke to me in Ukrainian. And I was already learning the Ukrainian language myself because in our Sarata, there wasn't even a Ukrainian school. There were mostly officers, military men, it was a former German colony. I didn't even know the Ukrainian language. Of course, he first gave me a lecture—how could such a Ukrainian, with such a surname, not know the Ukrainian language? You don't respect your grandfathers or your great-grandfathers! Although I was ashamed, it was a good thing. They invited me for coffee. It was the first time I met Western Ukrainians over a cup of coffee. The guys asked me questions, received me well, gave me a bed in their company. I was young, I worked at the sawmill—there was some kind of wood processing plant there.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Do you remember any of the insurgents who met you, besides Pidhorodetskyi?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Besides Pidhorodetskyi, there was also someone from Mykolaiv—not this southern Mykolaiv, but Mykolaiv in Lviv oblast...
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Mykola Konchakivskyi? From the village of Rudky in Mykolaiv raion?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, yes, yes. I have a bad memory for surnames. Moreover, right after I was released, I used to visit their families, but then family life... Somewhere I heard that Pidhorodetskyi had been shot during an escape from the camp. This happened right when I was there...
V.V.Ovsiyenko: But that was Anton Oliinyk and Roman Semeniuk who were escaping. P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes. They escaped from the zone, and Pidhorodetskyi and a few other men helped them. But I didn't know this at the time, because they didn't let me in on it. When I was released, I went to Pidhorodetskyi's brother. Because Vasyl had told me: “Go to the Carpathians, you'll see where Stepan Bandera fought, you'll see how Western Ukraine lives.”
Of course, when I was released, I went to this village of Krushelnytsia. There's a suspension bridge there. They told me where his brother lived. I went to the brother's house. He worked in the forestry. The next day he gave me a car, a man, and he drove me around those dugouts.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: He showed you the hideouts?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, yes. I remember that very well.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And what was his brother’s name?
P.I.Otchenashenko: I don't remember. I have good memories of Vasyl Pidhorodetskyi. I was just a young boy there, and the guys who escaped were adults. When I was being released, he said: “Maybe you'll get to meet Oliinyk and Semeniuk.” I arrived, and his brother said that they had already been there, that they were being waited for here and that they had gone to cross the border somewhere else. He didn't say where, but they had left for somewhere. Later I found out that they were arrested and shot after all.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Anton Oliinyk was shot, with “newly discovered circumstances” added to his old case, and Roman was given an additional three years in Volodymyr prison. I was in camps 19 and 17 with Roman in 1974–77. He served 28 years and was released around 1979. He was even the head of the URP organization in Sokal. I met him at a congress. In 1992, he was walking down the street in the rain, a car hit him. The people from the same car picked him up, took him to the hospital, but he died within an hour. To think—to serve 28 years and die like that!
P.I.Otchenashenko: It was all fabricated. God, the things they did...
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Who knows. You mentioned visiting Pidhorodetskyi's brother. But you didn't talk about the camp.
P.I.Otchenashenko: The camp, of course, impressed me greatly—I began to learn Ukrainian, I began to learn English. There was enough time. I was struck by their calm attitude towards me. They treated me very well, especially the guys from Western Ukraine. Besides, I was drawn to the young guys—from the Baltics, from Klaipeda.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Was Liudas Simutis there, perhaps?
P.I.Otchenashenko: No, I don't remember him. There was one young guy from Baku, I was friends with him. I was there for a short time, I only served two years in total, because they reduced my sentence later—Khrushchev was already gone. I didn't have to serve much time, because with the investigation, the transport, and then being moved back and forth. It was all new to me, so it passed quickly and wasn't too hard.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And from which zone were you released?
P.I.Otchenashenko: From the eleventh. There’s a small narrow-gauge railway there—and on to Moscow.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And so, you were released into freedom in Yavas? Did you serve exactly two years?
P.I.Otchenashenko: Yes, exactly two years.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: And how was your sentence shortened?
P.I.Otchenashenko: The Supreme Court of Ukraine reduced it, based on an appeal I filed after the conviction.
When I returned, I couldn't get a job. They wouldn't let me into Odesa.
V.V.Ovsiyenko: Were you released directly from the zone? Because later they would escort people all the way home, to their own oblast—so they wouldn't stop in Moscow and give interviews.
P.I. Otchenashenko: Yes. I was in Moscow. Yesterday I was looking everywhere for a photograph—I had a picture from Moscow. When I was released, I had my picture taken by the Tsar Cannon and the Tsar Bell on Red Square.
V.V. Ovsiienko: So, the trend of visiting Sakharov after one’s release hadn’t started yet?
P.I. Otchenashenko: No. I didn't go home straight from Moscow because I had no one at home—I went to stay with my friend Pidhoretsky and stayed there for a week or two. We traveled around the Carpathians, and they showed me the hideouts. It was interesting. I also visited Mykola Konchakivsky at his home, and only then did I return to Odesa. When I arrived in Odesa, I was stopped: “You are not permitted in Odesa. To the 101st kilometer.” So I moved to Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi. I applied for a job there and was hired right away, but when it came time to get my residence permit, they wouldn't register me. The commandant says, “There’s a snag; the order came down not to register you.” I ask, “How can that be? I can't register in Odesa, and I can't register in Bilhorod either—so where am I supposed to go?” At that time, Podgorny was the Chairman of the Supreme Soviet...
V.V. Ovsiienko: He was the First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, and in 1963 he went to Moscow as a Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU. From 1965, he was the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR.
P.I. Otchenashenko: Yes, the First Secretary. I remember clearly writing a letter to Podgorny, saying that if they wouldn't register me, then they should let me go abroad or somewhere—why were you hounding me? Right away, a slip of paper came back: Approved.
V.V. Ovsiienko: Approved for where—Odesa?
P.I. Otchenashenko: For Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi. I went to the construction institute to be reinstated—"No, absolutely not, don't even set foot in the institute!" A year or so passed, and I went to take the entrance exams again. I studied for a year—and bam! I was taking a math exam, I think, and it seemed like I passed everything. “No, you didn't pass.” “But I answered everything, didn't I?” “No, you didn't pass.” “So what's the problem?” “The thing is... Let's step outside for a moment... You are not permitted to study at this institute.” And even before my imprisonment, I had left after my third year and worked as a construction engineer; I built a lot in Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi...
V.V. Ovsiienko: What was the name of this institute?
P.I. Otchenashenko: The Odesa Construction Institute.
V.V. Ovsiienko: So you enrolled in it again, and they expelled you again after the first year?
P.I. Otchenashenko: I had already gotten married by that time, and I have a son, he's all grown up now. Sashko, born in 1967.
Those repressions still haven't ended. When I ran for the Verkhovna Rada, they started by calling me a *zek* [convict], a thief, and made all sorts of things up. And then one evening they cornered my son and beat him up—he suffered three jaw fractures. I got Chornovil involved. Chornovil issued some kind of note of protest; they wrote to Kravchuk. And it came to nothing. My son was in the hospital for almost three months, here in Odesa... Of course, that affected me a great deal at the time. There were 16 candidates, and I was in fourth place.
V.V. Ovsiienko: What year was that election?
P.I. Otchenashenko: That was probably in 1994.
V.V. Ovsiienko: And after your release, did you have any other dealings with the authorities? Were there any other repressions? What did you do for work after your release?
P.I. Otchenashenko: At first, I was a foreman on a construction site in Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi, then a site superintendent, then the head of a construction division. I built half of a residential district in that city, and a resort area.
V.V. Ovsiienko: Did the authorities remind you of your past?
P.I. Otchenashenko: They were always reminding me; they never left me in peace. I wanted to travel abroad, just on a tourist voucher, but I couldn't get permission; they would immediately circle my name in red pencil. And the message was: don't make a fuss, just be thankful we're letting you live here.
V.V. Ovsiienko: And when “perestroika” began, when various organizations started to form?
P.I. Otchenashenko: I, of course, was one of the first to join Rukh [the People's Movement of Ukraine]. I had a lot of trouble then, I even had to leave my job because the management started putting a lot of pressure on me: how could it be that the head of an entire construction division, with over 200 employees, is in Rukh? How is that possible? He speaks at rallies...
V.V. Ovsiienko: And so, you had to leave your job?
P.I. Otchenashenko: Yes, I had to leave. That's how things were. But I wasn't unemployed—I went to another department, and they gave me a job. Then things calmed down when different parties came to power. You know, in Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi, it got to the point where they tore down the flag at the executive committee building and burned it in public. A criminal case was opened then. But when the government changed, the case was closed. Things like that even happened.
V.V. Ovsiienko: And what is your situation now?
P.I. Otchenashenko: I'm a pensioner now. I retired on special terms. First, because I was a victim of political repression, and second, as a construction worker, I get to retire five years earlier. But I still head a small construction firm. We work, people get their wages, we take orders from organizations. You have to live on something, after all. Even though we fought for our country's independence, we have nothing. Those who worked for the Party get pensions of 400–500 hryvnias, while we get 70–80.
O.S. Riznykiv: No, I get 90.
P.I. Otchenashenko: Well, yes, but what can you buy with that 90? Prices are rising.
V.V. Ovsiienko: I have your address, but could you please state your address and phone number so we have it on the record again?
P.I. Otchenashenko: Odesa Oblast, city of Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi, 19 Victory St., Apt. 22. Telephone: 3-12-66, area code 04849.
V.V. Ovsiienko: Alright, thank you.